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Author Topic: Single-shot or double-barrel break action rifles and shotguns  (Read 5277 times)
TempleKnight
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« on: September 02, 2012, 12:38:14 PM »

After rereading some of Cooper's literature regarding confrontations and tactics in the field I went over the part where should a scout find themselves in a combat situation the general idea is to fire off one or two rounds before removing yourself from the situation.  With this in mind I was wondering if any other scouts on these forums have converted any single-shot rifles or shotguns (or even double-barrel variants) into usable scout rifles that fit all other requirements besides magazine capacity.
If anyone has any suggestions for a build or a starting model to work with (apart from actual survival rifles like the Savage 24 or M6) post it here.
Thanks and good hunting everyone!
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bitterbrush
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 05:05:47 PM »

Knight,

I have to say that I appreciate the thought behind your post. It is sort of the other side of the "battle scout" with the 10 rd magazine hanging out the bottom of it. I find the idea of a light sleek fast handling single shot to be an interesting idea. I picked up a break open single shot rifle that someone had fixed up at a gun show a few months ago and my reaction to it was hmmmm, "this has some appeal".
I have thought about having one broken down and stashed away in a vehicle or other location as a possibility. A full power single shot in capable hands is an effective tool and can accomplish as much or more than some other popular configuratons in less capable hands.
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TempleKnight
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 05:35:49 PM »

Bitter,

Out of curiosity what is the make and model of your single-shot? 
I have found that a lot of the more venerable brands that have made single-shot rifles in the past are now nothing more than footnote subsidiaries to larger companies and have suffered due to their absorption into a greater body.  (Harrington & Richardson and New England Firearms come to mind)

I think that if a single-shot rifle were to fit the bit it would have to be collapsible (or capable of easy break down), have a rail or scope mount, and fit all other acceptable requirements for Jeff Cooper's vision of a scout rifle.  But due to the fact that your main rifle (or shot gun) would have no more than one or two shots before needing reloading I do feel that it must be stressed that a fairly reliable sidearm is at hand (i.e. a good 1911, a good revolver, any Springfield, a Glock if you must, etc, etc)

-TempleKnight
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triggertime
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 05:41:51 PM »

I suggest a Dakota Model 10 as a base   Grin

anyone who wants to "chip in" can have a say on the "upgrades" and share the rifle

Standard or Mannlicher ?? 

Caliber ?   I have always wanted one in 7x57,  but im negotiable   Smiley

Start designing away !!  Ohh,  if you want something else,  go right ahead.  Ruger #1's are nice,
but a Model 10 just screams "classy".   Im holding out for the model 10 

Cheers,
m


 

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Gorby
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 05:43:05 PM »

Obviously the H&R/NEF handy rifles will probably be the most cost effective, but one could have just about any combo he wanted if it was built on a TC Encore frame...
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TempleKnight
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 05:59:56 PM »

Trigger

Mannlicher stock would be nice but I only see those kinds of single-shots in the Ruger No 1 frame and while I do think they are amazing I don't have the kind of scratch Ruger is asking for such a beautiful falling-block rifle.
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michaelb
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 07:11:33 PM »


Obviously the H&R/NEF handy rifles will probably be the most cost effective, but one could have just about any combo he wanted if it was built on a TC Encore frame...


Inexpensive was never one of The Colonel's criterion for the scout rifle.  

The H&R Handirifle is certainly affordable.



The Rossi is even less expensive but it hit every branch falling out of the ugly tree.



The Encore is interesting but in my experience its ergonomics are poor; it just doesn't feel like a rifle.  Don't lose the hinge pin...



The Contender carbine (at least before the G2) handles nicely but it doesn't come in 308, 7mm08, or 243.  



The Ruger No.1 is fine starting point, but you'll want a custom barrel and a synthetic stock to make weight.



Triggertime's awesome recommendation for the Dakota Model 10 would make for a one of kind single shot scout.  They'll put the barrel on it for you, but you'll still want a synthetic stock.  Perhaps the factory knows someone who will make a hand laid kevlar and carbon fiber handle.  $10k ought to get you started.



How about the Blaser K95 or the Merkel K3?  They're light as a buggy whip out of the box (~5.5 pounds).  The basic guns start at ~$6,000, which leave you plenty to send the barrel off to Grizzly Custom to have Lew silver solder some scout scope mounts to the barrel.  http://www.grizzlycustom.com





You're welcome.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 07:43:08 PM by michaelb » Logged

"The object of the practical rifleman is the achievement of first-round hits, on appropriate targets, at unknown ranges, from improvised firing positions, against the clock." - Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
bitterbrush
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 08:13:22 PM »

Knight,

Quote
Sorry for the poor choice of words. When I said "picked up" it meant it literally. I picked it up off the table and felt it I did not buy it. It was on older H&R with a full mannlicher in caliber 30-30. I am not suggesting that it was an ideal set up but that it started me thinking about a single shot. One that has the qualities of the Ruger #1 or even # 3 but cost more like the H&R would fit the bill.
Now I have to go learn about a Dakota number 10.
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triggertime
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2012, 08:35:26 PM »

I can live with a synthetic stock on a Model 10.  Actually, I would prefer it.

I don't own a single shot rifle,  but have shot a few Ruger #1's & 3's. 

In my mind, if one is going to do a single shot rifle,  it must be done right.  This will require
lots of blood, sweat, tears, and mostly cash.   I have handled a Model 10 a couple times, have
not had the opportunity to shoot one.  But it is,  svelt, handy, stylish, lovely, even beautiful. 

Hence,  my choice.    Cool

For those not familiar with the Dakota Model 10 .  Also,  plenty of google hits.

http://www.dakotaarms.com/#!model-10

Cheers,
m
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Gorby
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2012, 11:58:50 PM »

Michaelb: I was not meaning that a scout rifle had to be inexpensive, rather that the only reason I would choose a single shot over a bolt action would be if I could not afford a bolt action. My intention was to highlight inexpensive single shots because even outfitting a TC would put you into bolt action price ranges.

Chris
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michaelb
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 07:52:34 AM »


I was not meaning that a scout rifle had to be inexpensive, rather that the only reason I would choose a single shot over a bolt action would be if I could not afford a bolt action.


The Colonel suggested that the cash strapped rifleman purchase an Enfield No.4 until he could afford to have his scout built.  Of course that was in the days when a nice No.4 could be had for $100.00.  

The H&R is a solid rifle, and if you purchase the SB2 frame it can be fitted with other rifle barrels at the factory.  It would be nice if they still made it in 7.62x39.  Better yet, barreled as a 7.62x54R a Handirifle would be affordable and cheap to feed.  Put an aperture sight on it and call it ready.

If you can get its crude sights zero'd the Rossi isn't a bad truck gun, so long as you're not worried about it scuffing your pickup's bed liner.

If you can live with a rifle that handles like a 2x6 the Encore has some potential.  The Choate folder and a 16 inch barrel will run to the heavy side but it's compact.


Discussion of this rifle here http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?61819-I-guess-this-can-go-here-ok.-My-new-TC-Encore

The Colonel mentioned the single shot as a potential scout but I respectfully submit that deliberations start with the Ruger No.1.  Any action that can rebarreled as a 577 Nitro is much larger than needed but that cannot be helped.  Imagine removing the sight rib and mounting a scout scope so low that the bottom of objective bell is just occluded by the receiver ring.  We'll still want a synthetic stock to make weight.  The design of the foreend will take some work so that a fella could shoot with a tight sling.  BUIS would be a challenge but if hunting is the primary goal then a spare scope is probably a simpler solution.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 03:04:14 PM by michaelb » Logged

"The object of the practical rifleman is the achievement of first-round hits, on appropriate targets, at unknown ranges, from improvised firing positions, against the clock." - Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
PrivateContractor
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 08:18:43 PM »

There is definitely a reason double rifles are used in the pursuit of dangerous game..................Two shots with relative accuracy, much faster than a bolt-gun for two shots, though loosing out at three.

Combine the best of a double and a falling-block and you have the Farquharson custom double, which is a beautiful weapon in it's own right. I do not see any specs on weight, or reload speed for that matter.
http://bradshawgunandrifle.com/Farquharson_Double_Rifle_1B.php
I have also felt their "small-bore double rifle" is equally beautiful, and useful, especially in the three-barrel set of .357 Maximum, .22Hornet, and .410......Certainly handy for the lower 48, albeit pricey. However, at a specified sub-6 pounds it would certainly be comfortable in the field as well. Worth a look anyway, though not for the battlefield.
http://bradshawgunandrifle.com/Small_bore_double_rifle.php

While I do not care for the quality, the Stoeger Double Defense 12 or 20 gauge certainly are unique as well. And anyone who has seen the move, "ZombieLand" knows that a double is the only way to go and viable as defense against the masses............Please forgive me from using a movie reference, let alone related to zombies, but I felt it was needed in this case.

-PC-
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Kevin
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michaelb
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 03:17:28 PM »


Combine the best of a double and a falling-block and you have the Farquharson custom double, which is a beautiful weapon in it's own right. I do not see any specs on weight, or reload speed for that matter.
http://bradshawgunandrifle.com/Farquharson_Double_Rifle_1B.php


I've got no use for an $1850 set of 410 shotgun barrels, but I bet that fella could sell a mess of his pop-up ghost ring sights around here...

« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 05:17:28 PM by michaelb » Logged

"The object of the practical rifleman is the achievement of first-round hits, on appropriate targets, at unknown ranges, from improvised firing positions, against the clock." - Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
twobiscuit
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 05:54:29 PM »

One disadvantage to the Handi-Rifles and other break open actions is that they are awkward and diffiicult to fire a second shot from the prone position. A Browning Low Wall might be nice or Navy Arms used to sell the rolling block baby carbine that had a smaller action. I'm not sure if they would work with a .308 but I've always thought they would be pretty cool with a .357.

Dale Story used to sleeve shotguns for rifle calibers so something like a Coach Gun might be an inexpensive base.

Given the "unhandiness" of the break actions, I've thought quite a bit about mounting a rail for a scout scope on an 20" Encore .460 S&W barrel. The sights would be set for .45 Colts and the scope would be set for .460.  I think it would work for me as a Mountain Gun   
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michaelb
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 06:26:52 PM »


One disadvantage to the Handi-Rifles and other break open actions is that they are awkward and difficult to fire a second shot from the prone position. A Browning Low Wall might be nice or Navy Arms used to sell the rolling block baby carbine that had a smaller action. I'm not sure if they would work with a .308 but I've always thought they would be pretty cool with a .357.


Uberti makes a rolling block in 30/30 http://www.uberti.com/firearms/1871-rolling-block-hunter-carbine.php At $769 it's a little spendy but it weighs only 4-1/2 pounds.  I imagine a fella could recut the chamber as an Ackley Improved for a little extra oomph.

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"The object of the practical rifleman is the achievement of first-round hits, on appropriate targets, at unknown ranges, from improvised firing positions, against the clock." - Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
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